The “Dangers of the Emerging Church” website, and a letter to over 400 pastors in the Atlantic Baptist Convention, has elicited some response. Several emails and phone calls have been coming in from pastors, and other Christians. The vast majority of the comments were from serious, thinking and concerned men and women of God who still uphold the Word of God in our churches.
Here are a few of those comments (with names removed):
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I received your email about Brian and the conference. I just wanted to send my encouragement to you. I feel the same way as you, and I had no intention of attending the conference. I am presently studying at ADC, and in my courses I have had to read some of the books by Brian McLaren, so I am not surprised to see him invited to speak. I just want to let you know that you are not alone in feelings and concerns you have with this invitation made by convention.
Thanks for sending this out. I have recently begun studying the movement and have been myself quite alarmed at what I have found. Good site. You have put a lot of good information in one place for folks to study. This should be of real benefit.
Have you actually read McLaren??? Well I did - I've personally read over 4 of his books. I read "A New Kind of Christian" - this was openly promoted at our church as a good read. I knew nothing of the controversy of McLaren at that time (and there wasn't as much then because he was still fairly "new" on the scene). So, I read this book knowing not a thing negative of McLaren, but I saw for myself right away that this man was in error - and immediately thought the book was trash. Then, I started reading more of him and exploring the internet. Then I found others who saw the error too!
His book "New Kind of Christian, New kind of church" was described one of my professors at ADC as a book that should be more accurately entitled "The Denial of our fundamentals of the faith." Thank you for taking the time to voice your concerns, I hope this year's conference is poorly attended, perhaps it will send a message to our convention leaders that the Maritimes is not interested in McLaren's "new" approach to evangelism.
I am not attending the Evangelism Conference. I agree with you that heresy need not be embraced. Regrettably, it has been. I commend you for your part in upholding the true gospel. Any other gospel should be anathema to us. While it is important for us to know what is going on (i.e. like Paul the Apostle and John the Beloved), it is equally important to protect the flock from harmful ideas that play havoc with the mind and spirit.
Thank you for sharing this information and scripture. It was helpful, thought provoking. your sources I cannot disagree with. Thank you for taking the time to send this information.
I appreciate so much you voicing your concern. I too am alarmed that the convention has given tacit approval to Brian McLaren and the Emerging Church movement by inviting him to be the speaker at this year’s conference. I decided some time ago I wasn't going to attend.
You are in a great battle -- I will pray for you as you stand firm in the faith against these issues.
It’s too bad they couldn’t get a speaker like John MacArthur or something. I wish all preachers would be able to preach like that. Now convention would benefit far more from having someone like him preaching – someone who has a reputation for solid preaching.
McLaren, with his notion of building Christ's kingdom on earth with his community development program, might as well say, "where is this promise of his coming?"
I've been doing some reading in the CABC Convention yearbook-2005, and in it Harry G. and Malcolm B. reveal they have a close personal/mentoring relationship with Dallas Willard, who was the keynote speaker at assembly 04. Both have been on a two week retreat with him between 02-04 and took a course together with him in 02. At undisclosed venues. The connection is that both G. and McLaren consider Dallas Willard a close personal friend and mentor. That doesn't mean Willard gets credit for McLaren's ideas, but it does give a valid reason why both would consider McLaren both objectively credible and a good person to invite to the conference. This might be a case of personal friendship clouding good judgement about what might be in the best interests of pastoral ministry in the CABC. The yearbook is public domain and is on the Atlantic website. Both report significant admiration for Willard. It's the common factor they all have.
Being that the emergent church advocates teaching that the Bible is unclear and cannot be understood, I would think that someone like X would be the first to align himself against this. I agree that we must show our concern, and we must shout if necessary. Jude tells us to earnestly contend for the faith, and therefore when the authority of Scripture is attacked, and the very foundations of the church are being destroyed, I believe that gives us cause to stand and fight. Attacks against the Scripture and sound doctrine, as put forth by the emergent church, should create in the Christian what Ryle calls a ‘holy indignation.’ He says that those who are content to hear ‘sham Christianity’ and do nothing are basically good for nothing. Issues like this need to be dealt with quickly and decisively. Would Jesus or John the Baptist be condemned for shouting at the Pharisees “You brood of vipers!”, but yet it was what they needed to hear, not necessarily what they wanted to hear.
Convention might not like what we have to say, but the reality is that it needs to be said for the protection of the church and for the furtherance of the gospel. I feel that by backing down we dishonor God and mock the very sacrifice of Christ on the cross. I’m sure X feels very passionately about this but I do believe he is wrong in this case... We are to guard our hearts and minds against false doctrine, not purposefully expose ourselves to it. We are, at best, still human and can still be deceived, and must be alert and wary at all times, especially against ‘new’ teachings. Take care and God bless.
Your site is very good and I praise the Lord for it.
I have been reading the excellent site you’ve put together. Good job! There is a lot to digest. My feedback thus far seems to be that the “Faith Community” is in a quandary about its identity. We don’t need to panic and sell short our convictions just because the world is becoming a hostile place for us. Christians are, and always have been, in a minority. We don’t need to be popular! We don’t need to be understood. We need to proclaim the Gospel. We simply need to take Paul’s words to heart. “I am not ashamed of the Gospel…” The emerging church may well be ashamed of it! Or worse!
I must say that I have lost faith in the Atlantic Baptist Convention and Acadia. To me they seem somewhat liberal minded and are straying from conservative Baptist roots. Hopefully, with God’s grace, things there will slowly start to improve. I’ll continue to pray for you.
Here’s a
long quote on our favourite subject which puts Postmodernism and Brian McLaren into
perspective:
“... the simple reason why postmodernism's days are numbered is that it commits epistemological suicide. Postmodernism makes the assertion that truth is merely a social construct -- or as one postmodernist puts it, truth is whatever your colleagues let you say. If that is the case, then postmodern thought is also just another social construct and has neither universal nor normative force. Therefore, there is no reason that one should be compelled to let it be a normative criterion to shape and determine one's beliefs. Moreover, if one takes the postmodernist's idea of the hermeneutics of suspicion seriously, then there is every reason to believe that their whole academic exercise is simply a thinly veiled disguise to get political power over anyone who holds a view different than their own. Since postmodernists have shown their hand, one can easily avoid being taken in by their verbal con game. Most simply stated, postmodernism is guilty of being self referentially absurd. When postmodernists give up the idea of objective truth, there is no reason whatsoever to take what they say as true -- particularly since they have conceded up front that nothing is genuinely true.” - From " Reclaiming the Center: Confronting Evangelical Accomodation in Postmodern Times” - edited by Millard Erickson, Paul Helseth & Justin Taylor. ISBN # is 1-58134-568-2. Published by Crossway Books., pg. 308 - I think that about summarizes things rather nicely. You might even dare to call it the last word on a subject Brian McLaren says there is no last word on.
I thank you so much for taking the initiative to send out the letter about Brian McLaren who will be speaking at the Evangelism Conference later this month. Just hours before receiving your letter today, I had been reading about the “emerging church” movement for the first time, with alarm, in a book entitled "This Little Church Stayed Home" by Gary E Gilley. It is a sequel to an earlier book entitled "This Little Church Went to Market" by the same author. Both books contain an excellent analysis of the effect on the world mindset upon the church, which to a large extent is following the world and its culture rather than shaping it. In the "Church Stayed Home" book, Gilley addresses the many errors of the emerging church movement in the last two chapters. It is a new concept to me and previously, I wasn't aware of Brian McLaren who is to be the key note speaker. In fact, Gilley speaks of McLaren as one of the most influential leaders of the movement and quotes him often. Indeed, Gilley notes that he and the movement substantially undermine the authority of Scripture and mutilate its interpretation. I quote from Gilley P.148 of "Stayed Home": "There is no absolute truth or ultimate reality in the emergent agenda. Even Scripture is appreciated for its mystery, not its presentation of truth.... The emergent church leaders are asking us to embrace a faith without truth, a Bible which has value due to its mystery, and a reality that is individual, subjective and changeable. I fail to see the attraction, not to mention that no such understanding of truth is supportable by the Scriptures." It is good that a warning has been sounded by you. Have you made inquiry of Convention as to why they have engaged such a person to lead a conference that usually attracts a large following? It is not only a puzzle to me but a matter of great concern.
I decided to check out www.takebackcanada.com/emergingchurch.html. I was shocked at the articles ...
I love our convention, and have the utmost respect for people such as Harry G. and Malcolm B., but this time a big mistake was made in inviting Brian McLaren to speak to us - about what should be our main focus: evangelism.
Keep up the good work there... the church needs more men like you, men who are willing to stick their neck out, and stand up for Biblical convictions, when most everyone else seems to be caving in and compromising with the lies of the enemy.
I must confess, I had never heard of this McLaren chap nor the emerging church movement. I am not attending the conference at Saint Andrews, but I want to thank you for taking the time to make us all more aware of potential threats to the preaching of the Scripture which we should all be very careful to defend.
Thank you for your letter and concerns. I see that the Convention quickly sent out a rebuttal letter yesterday. I followed some of the links you supplied and tend to agree. I especially took note of two Southern Baptist responses which I printed. I want to have evangelism as it used to be conducted in the Maritimes. I am concerned with all the fads of the last twenty-five years.
Thank you for your stand. I've talked to many pastors about Brian McLaren, some could not believe that he McLaren was coming to the conference on Evangelism. But, I was shocked that other pastors loved his work and were going to see him! What a sad state we are in!
Just where is the church headed? Are we anchored in Christ and standing firm upon the Word of God? Apostasy of the last days is upon us. As never before, we need godly wisdom and discernment. May it be that God, in His grace and mercy, should grant it to us so that we might not follow the subtle schemes of Satan and bring shame to the name of our Saviour.
Thank you for sending me this information. It is truly a sad day; a day of deep lack of discernment by so many, including those who purport to be the shepherds of God's people. You boldness and efforts in this matter are a blessed contrast. I pray that many will listen to your voice and recognize their compromise.
Regarding McLaren, I am amazed they referred to his teaching as “orthodox.” But, when you read McLaren you can see enough statements that can lead you to believe he sounds orthodox. Note, ‘can’ lead you to believe. The fact that he can do this is perhaps a sad indication of the state of theological awareness and understanding amongst church members and leaders. I really believe that some of our Convention leaders really did not investigate fully Brian's teachings. And, now that he is coming they must feel they cannot climb down and admit error in this matter. Shame.
Thank you for your note and its accompanying exchanges. The fascinating thing is that the folks who are actually planting the churches are people like Tim Keller, Mark Dever, Mark Driscoll, and the like - not Stan Grenz, not Leonard Sweet, not Erwin McManus, and so forth. Retain your integrity, and be encouraged by the fact that Christ will build his church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
The folks at that seminar need to have their eyes opened. You wonder how leadership can be so in the dark and unwilling to listen to the legitimate concerns of God's people. Reminds me of the blind leading the blind. We live in very uncertain times as we view the world around us. I guess we should expect the chaos and confusion and even the corruption, knowing that Satan's time is limited and that he will pull out all the stops in these last days to undermine and destroy the work of Christ and His church. But that doesn't excuse His followers from sitting back and just letting the devil have his way either. We are called to fight the good fight of faith, and particularly to stand fast in these troublesome times. It won't be easy, especially when those who are supposed to be on our side are found consorting with the enemy. Apostasy is alive and well these days. I think from the details and warnings of Scripture, we realize that the devil does his most destructive work from within the framework of the church. I saw on the news where some of the cooks in Iraq were poisoning the food of the Iraqi army.... the enemy from within. Beware!
Took a brief look at your emergent church dangers site... My husband and I left our church because of lack of discernment from some of the pastors. They thought Brian McLaren was a fellow brother in Christ and had some good things to say. His books were openly used and promoted by 2 of our pastors. That was enough to say good-bye after 13 years, and my husband was one of the elders! Thanks be to God he saw this error (I saw it first - and it was SO obvious that the man was a wolf in sheep’s clothing to me). Now a couple of years later it's interesting to see more people become aware of the Emergent Church and to see more sites like yours.
I thank you from the bottom of my heart, and praise the Lord that I'm in the company of such like-minded men who hold to the Truth, and above all hold to their Lord. It's obvious B.M. is an apostate, and I may go so far as to say a new-ager, and am greatly encouraged to see you standing up for the truth, and I hope that my being encouraged is to you an encouragement in itself. I'm a former Catholic, and not about to be subordinate to the Hierarchies of men. And also, like you, I've had my night where the Lord would give me no peace until I wrote what was on my heart. We're all Christians who hold the Word of God as the authority in this together, and we're all being used in like ways. Stand fast in the truth, brother.
X and I would be considered only lay people, not waxing eloquent or having had formal training in Divinity schools, or theological colleges. Maybe our considerations are negated by some for that reason. However, the irony falls in the fact that Brian McLaren has not been through these schools either.
So, I guess in many ways he is a 'lay' speaker also. Yet, McLaren's authority is himself, experience is his teacher, and the modern day culture is his guide, it seems.
It has been a few years since we have spoken on the phone, but thanks for letting us know about this speaker. As we have no Atlantic Baptist anymore, there is no way to raise issues among Atlantic Baptists. So, thank-you for taking your time and money to help make us aware of what this conference speaker will
be talking about. I was awakened by a dream this morning where I dreamt that the truth had been removed from our universities. (No, I do not normally dream about such heavy topics!) However, something led me to go scan an article sent to me from another Baptist pastor concerning postmodernism. Lo, and behold, the article was tied to the emerging church. So, in case you have not seen this one I send it along again with my thanks. I had heard very little about the emerging church before your e-mail.
Thank you for attempting to stand against the invitation to Brian McLaren. X gave me your website. I also wrote to the Baptist Atlantic mission board and got the same answer as you, as a matter of fact, the reply I got from the mission board was two thirds of their answer to you cut and pasted into mine. How original.
I applaud your effort to stand against false doctrine. For some reason, it seemed OK to do this with X. on the spiritual warfare issue, but it seems, when it comes to Convention, the same rules do not apply. Everyone is accountable to the Word of God, no matter who. We, as Christians should be indignant at false teaching. I only wish more people had the fortitude to do the same. I am, and will be, praying for Convention.
Thanks for this. I have engaged a few pastors in my area about your letter. I told them that we should be concerned and we should do what you did (ie, do our own work up on McLaren). I got some mixed responses. Some showed mild interest. Some showed no interest. And, some feel that this too will pass.
I am not surprised by the spiritual apathy - I am sorry for it. May God forgive us for our tepid hearts and testimonies... All the more, I am convinced to keep preaching the “once for all Gospel.” My only concern is Christ and His gospel. Tozer was right so many years ago (as were others before him), the church is more concerned about “image” in the eyes of the world than in shining for Jesus. It is my conviction that the winnowing fork is even at the door. May the Lord clean house for His honour and glory is part of my devotional prayer time. God bless you as you do your part. Thanks again for the excellent website. I am continuing to educate myself.
I want to drop a note to thank you for the concern for the gospel, the Word of God and our Baptist faith that prompted you to write your letter. I did not personally attend the conference and am somewhat unfamiliar with the "emerging church" and Brian McLaren for that matter. Before your letter arrived, a couple of incidents arose that served to heighten my awareness of this controversial movement. The first was a paper that was handed to me by Rev. X which warned of the danger of following the latest "fads" amongst modern evangelicals. In it, Brian McLaren and the "emerging church" is listed as the latest in a line of programs we are called upon to embrace. The second was an urgent call made to a mother in our congregation, from a son in the United States, who was very concerned with the Convention of Atlantic Baptist Churches use of Brian McLaren as a speaker. His information seems to come from Dr. John Piper. At any rate I wanted to take the time to thank you for your letter.
[TBC: The following comments sent by a pastor are certainly worthy of
consideration.]
I think, in my opinion that many evangelicals today, including a vast
amount of our Beloved [denomination], has drifted away from the safe
moorings of God's Holy Word.
Moreover, I have watched for the past 40 years and heard, "the incessant
call for change in our Churches, so we changed". Into what?
We have all been seduced into politics in church, and mystical
teachings, [charismatic extremism], and hundreds of Bible translations
until the word is diluted and ineffective.
We are all, very off base. We should all "repent and renounce our
willingness to compromise."
I have friends who are very high ranking SBC folks-who are now
attending, "Desert Father's Mystical Retreats", Roman Catholic
teachings, and learning Transcendtal Meditation-TM, mantras, and other
Zen and Buddhist teachings.
The things that I say, may surprise you some, but you know, this is
hitting the bull's eye and where many of our Churches are stagnated in
the slough of despond-And are stuck in this morbid mode of religious
apostasy. God forbid!
Beloved, we are in a pickle. In fact, our very own people are like
termites eating away the once solid foundation built by men and women of
integrity.
Beloved Ones, it is imperative that we repent and return to the Lord,
lest we continue in the deceptions and delusions of our current
leadership and trends today.
When the principles that run against your deepest convictions begin to win the day, then the battle is your calling, and peace has become sin. You must at the price of dearest peace lay your convictions bare before friend and enemy with all the fire of your faith. - Dr. Abraham Kuyper